Sunday, April 09, 2006

1916

1916 is coming up. While many people disagree with commemorating it. I don't. I think our fight for freedom and self-determination was right and we should not be ashamed of our origins. The French celebrate Bastille the English celebrate Trafelger why can't we celebrate 1916. I wrote my thought on 1916 here. Also check out the image on the sidebar. Remember 1916. United Irelander is going 1916 crazy with what is turning into a 1916 themed week.

6 comments:

randombassist said...

Firstly, I have to worry that 1916 is coming up, it would be quite a worrying temporal anomaly indeed for such a thing to happen!

Secondly, you have overlooked the fact that 1916 was a betrayal of the 300,000 Irish people fighting in WWI at the behest of their leaders. The 'gallant allies in Europe' refered to in the proclamation, were of course the Germans. A base betrayal of the worst kind, getting guns and munitions from those that people seeking freedom for Ireland were fighiting.

It should not be the role of the government to propagate a one sided reading of history, which is exactly what this commemoration will do.

Simon said...

Is trafelgrar,poppy day and bastilie not commerating one side as well?

Also how is it a betrayel of the 300,000 Irish fighting in Belgium. They were fighting for freedom. Against a foe that was trying to rule belgium against the will of the people of belgium. Are you saying that Britian was rulling Ireland with the will of the people.

randombassist said...

No, I'm saying that 300,000 Irish people went to fight in such a war for no other reason that that they were asked to by their deomcratically elected leaders. They were the ones fighting and dying for Ireland in their tens of thousands while back home, a small group of armed rebels, who couldn't even derive the support of the section of the volunteers that had remained behind, stabbed them in the back.

Yes, Trafalgar day, Bastille day etc are one sided readings of history. They are also romanticised and removed from the reality of the situation at the time. Not many people remember the 12 innocent people slaughtered outside the Bastille. By using them as your examples are you agreeing that we should bastardise our history and propagate a one sided reading of it?

Simon said...

No, I'm saying that 300,000 Irish people went to fight in such a war for no other reason that that they were asked to by their deomcratically elected leaders.

Not really many went for the money for their families just as they did in World War II.

By using them as your examples are you agreeing that we should bastardise our history and propagate a one sided reading of it?
Yes of course we do everyone does it . Why because we are sided. We are Irish and thus take the Irish side of it. America looks on its War of Indepence foundly while it invoulved killing British men. Also does VE day commemerate the death of Germans.

Arn't you being one sided by saying the Irish fighting in WWI was good I am sure some German families who had people killed by those Irish would not agree but you still commerate them one sidely.

randombassist said...

The vast majority of them went for the aim of Irish freedom, they were young and idealistic in a period full of such feeling.

To say that we are taking this point of view because we are Irish misses the central premise of my argument, which is that those who fought and died in the Somme were every bit as Irish. They too were carrying out an action for Ireland, only in their case in tandem with the mandate of the people and the political leadership.

And yes, you are right that my argument is taking a side in history. However you have not heard me say that the government should commemorate the Somme either. There is a difference between the private sphere, where an individual is free to make up their mind, and the public sphere where the government unduly influences thinking by propagating on side of the argument.

In this case they are also doing so for a politically motivated gain. This is evidenced by the fact that the commemoration was announced at the Fianna Fail Ard Fheis.

The other main arugment put forward for the commmoration is an abstract notion of relaiming nationalism, from SF, IRA and the like. This belies the fact that the legacay of the rising in fact is entirely in tandem with the view that a very small group of people can take an action in what they see as the national good, in spite of the views of the population.

Simon said...

Of the 180,000 voluneteers that listened to redmound call to fight for belgium 25,000 joined. So I don't think you can say that many went to fight for belgium.

that a very small group of people can take an action in what they see as the national good, in spite of the views of the population.

That can be said for anyone and we really do not know what the views of the population were. The last election was in 1910. Before the formation of the volunteers that brought arms back into the Irish Nationalism. In 1910 the people did not get to ask for independence all they had was the option of home rule nothing else. If they had been given the option of independce who knows what they would have vote for. The first time they had that option was 1918 and home rule was brushed aside.